Hey Midori, Youve got some interesting points there. I respect what you said and your opnion. I would like to mention though the fact that "THEY SAY" Tobirama Senju's Time Space Ninjutsu was NOTHING compared to those of Madara and Minato. He was the master of all water ninjutsu, as well as great with The Sword of The Thunder God. Then about Kakashi Hatake, My opnion on him is that "WHAT IF" he learned the FTG Technique from The Legendary Fourth Hokage before his death??? Do you think he would be included in the top ten then ? And about Hiruzen Sarutobi, I feel that if we were to see him fight in his prime, he might just be as strong or even stronger than Minato. While I feel The Fourth is overrated and hes not my favorite hokage, I still have a huge amount of respect for him. The power, talent, and NATURAL ability that that shinobi possessed was amazing. I believe Sarutobi was a beast in his prime as well. But my question to Midori is, if not the Second Hokage, Yondamie Raikage, Fifth Mizukage, and Itachi Uchiha, who else would you nominate for being the top ten shinobi??
I'm enjoying this friendly debate with you Red Legend.
For Tobirama I would like to point out that the Sword of the Thunder God is filler. No such sword exists in the manga so I wouldn't really count that towards him.
The reason I don't really think he's in the top ten is simply because he doesn't have either any feats to back that level of strength. And while other people we've both listed also don't have shown feats they've gotten hype.
Maybe if we where shown on screen his fight with the Gold or Silver brothers or the fight when he died I'd be more inclined to agree, but from what we've shown he's the second weakest Hokage after Tsunade
What if Kakashi knew the flying thunder god? Well I'm not sure. Given his low stamina I doubt he'd be able to use it for long and even if he could use the basic version I doubt he could use the mastered level 2 version. Maybe that would be enough to push him up in the rankings but I prefer to base such a list as much as possible on known facts rather then what if statements.
Overall I would say that Hiruzen knew more jutsu but Minato's speed would have allowed him to win against him after a very long hard fought battle.
Reposting my top ten list in no particular order, other then the Sage of the sixth paths is number 1 and Pain is number 10 for sure. The middle is more muddled
Sage of the sixth paths
First Hokage in his prime
Madara in his prime
Naruto (With Sage Mode and Fox mode combined)
Sasuke (with Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan)
Third Hokage (in his prime)
Third Tsuchikage (in his prime)
I don't really need to explain most of them as we've already gone over them, but I will go over the few that I haven't....
Naruto has surpassed both Jiraiya and Minato in various aspects. He dosn't know more jutsu then them, but he was able to master sage mode where Jiraiya never could, as well as take the Rasengen to levels Minato only dreamed of before his untimely death. In his own way he's just as good as inventing or modifiying jutsu as his pop ever was.
With JUST Sage mode alone he was already one of the strongest ninja currently alive. Combine that with his his new mode (and we DO know they can be combined) and he'd be virtually unstoppable
As for Sasuke well he gets in generally by defult as Naruto's rival since he's going to fight Naruto and have to be at least his near equal to be a credible threat. We know that Madara wants him because he has the potential for his Eternal Mangekyo to surpass Madara's own.
Trust me, Im enjoying this WAY MORE than you, haha.
There is finally someone who isnt simple minded and thinks "Oh the Fourth is the best" oh "Sasuke is the strognest"
You respect ALL aspects of everyone's power. And Im greatly happy to see that.
About Tobirama Senju, I wonder if HONESTLY Kisame Hoshikage maybe near or surpassed Tobirama's potential.
From what ive deduced, I think Tobirama wasnt much as a fighter as he was a leader.
I feel that his personality was like an older Hiruzen Sarutobi, always calm and collected, never liked violence, and only fought when needed.
On the opposite side, Hashirama was strong willed and bold, He also proved to be a great leader because of the fact him Tobirama and Madara created the Hidden Leaf.
And I learned something new from you, That the Sword of the Thunder God isnt real. Thanks.
Here is my Opnion on Naruto, I agree with you on mostly everything you said.
Naruto is CURRENTLY I would THINK the strongest shinobi in the village at this point in time.
Naruto came in and barely had trouble with all the paths of pein.
Lady Tsunade couldnt handle all those paths alone.
Lady Tsunade is feared because of her monsterous stregnth, I have no doubt in my mind that she is deadly, however, I FEEL that if you hold the title of HOKAGE your supposedly the strongest shinobi in the village. If a shinobi who is not Hokage comes and does something that there unable to do, something is out of wack there. Lady Tsunade was put into a coma because of the fact she protected the entire village from Pein's attack. A COMA. Let alone Naruto took on all the Pein's , beat them, found Nagato, and still help with the reconstruction of the village, and he hasnt sustained any MAJOR injuries unlike Lady Tsunade, who didnt fight a Pein but managed to be placed in a coma by protecting others. If I were a shinobi, Id protect the village because it is my duty, as Hokage im entrusted with the village's protection. What if Naruto had'nt arrived. What if he died previously to Pein's invasion.? Would Lady Tsunade and the rest of the Leaf Ninja been able to hold their own against Pein. I highly doubt it. If Kakashi was killed, and he is suppossed to be one of the elite jonin in the village, Tsunade backed down and a GENIN saved the day. There needs to be some changes. Now about Sasuke, in the end.... SPOILER...SPOILER!!!!!!! I HONESTLY believe that Madara will continue to train Sasuke until he has learned everything from him, and then Sasuke will do away with Madara like he did Orochimaru. Then once Madara is finished, Sasuke and Naruto will have their final battle. The only thing wrong with that are a couple of unknown factors.
1. JUST HOW POWERFUL IS MADARA UCHIHA IN HIS CURRENT FORM
2. WHAT IS INSIDE THE LAST CASKET THAT HAD THE ABILITY TO FRIGHTEN A SHINOBI OF MADARA'S POTENTIAL AND POWER
3. WHAT IF MADARA UNLEASHED THE TAILED BEASE AS A LAST RESORT ATTEMPT ..
Tell me if I missed something... ^^
Another thing... Its just a theory... I have nothing to back it up at all...
If its possible for Madara Uchiha to survive the fight with Hashirama Senju with SEVERE BATTLE WOUNDS over a long period of time..
What if Hashirama Senju did the same exact thing. Could Hashirama be alive too with SEVERE BATTLE WOUNDS just like Madara?
And for a moment, I thought one dude may have been Hashirama, I think it was the Samurai dude from the Iron Country, I think im refering to Mifune.. im not sure...
But what do you think about that ????
Thank you, I like to think of their strengths tactically and with a logical bent. In the world of ninja one could be the best at one thing but weak in another aspect so like rock, paper, scissors their really is no singular best. Even the sage of the sixth paths himself was no perfect after all and the series has proven time and time again that even if you're outpowered it's possible to overcome that difference if you fight wisely.
Given the right circumstances a gennin could beat a kage after all.
I think Kisame might have been equal or perhaps even better then Tobirama at least when it came to water jutsu. They where both masters of the highest level at using that element even able to create it from thin air where lesser ninja would need to carry it around with them the same way Gaara carried sand around in a gourd when he was a gennin.
I think Tobirama would still edge Kisame out in a fight thought more often then not thanks to his time/space jutsu, thought it would by no means be an easy fight.
The strongest ninja isn't always the kage. Sometimes like Jiraiya they don't really want to be or aren't suited to the responsibility. In Naruto's case he has more then enough raw power to do it, nobody questions that but the problem is his age. The concil was a little iffy on Kakashi thinking that he might be a bit young at first. They would have a hard time thinking Naruto has the experience to do a proper job.
But Naruto is nothing if not inspiring. He's a master at getting people to believe in him and brining out the best in people. Once he proves himself in the war I doubt anyone would seriously object letting him take the Hokage's hat he's long dreamed of wearing. He said it himself that even if he was stuck as a gennin forver he'd still find a way to become the Kage and lets be honest thought they never found the time to premote him he's far beyond Gennin level as it gets. Their was just no time where he had a break long enough to take an exam. Frankly they should have just given him a special premotion to Jounin by default for saving the village but they where too busy rebuilding it to worry about that before the war kicked in.
In any case it's not Tsuandes fault she didn't really stand a chance against pain. None of the other current Kage could realistically beat him either. There was a reason he called himself a god and it's because he had the power to back it up. She's a medical ninja first, combat ninja second so really their is only so much you should expect from her on the battle field. Now if Only Sakura would step up and surpass her already rather then being nearly useless (sigh)
Considering how much teamwork has been emphasized I find it more likely that Naruto will end up teaming up with Sasuke (and to a lesser extent Sakura) to finally overcome Madara. Their team is supposed to be likened to a second coming of the Sannin after all.
1. Powerful enough to now use Izungai with out losing an eye thanks to the Rinnigan. That's right he can now wrap reality with the only thing holding him back the fact it consumes a lot of chakra to do so thus tires him out fast...
2. I can think of only 2 credible things and one far fetched less likely one.
A. The Sage of the sixth paths for obvious reasons.
B. The Real Madara. If the current one is a fake...And he might be considering he wears a mask then he would rightfully fear the real deal
C. His brother who might have been nearly as powerful as he was in his prime and thus beat up his current self.
Actually we know for a fact Hashirama survived his battle. It's stated he later died in the first shinobi world war. We don't know how he died exactly but knowing how strong he was I wounder if his wounds to Madara played a part weakening him. But he pretty much HAS to be dead otherwise how did Orchimaru summon his soul from the afterlife during the fight with the Third Hokage?
Didn't it say Kakuzu stole the first Hokages heart, hence killing him.
No, no it didn't....To be honest I don't want to make a list like this for the simple fact recently it would have changed every few chapters. First of all there was Kisame who schooled Killer Bee, then he was beaten by Gai. Now Naruto not only has Sage Mode which pretty much puts him at the top, now he has control of the foxes powers. Who knows what Naruto can do with the combined powers of the fox and sage mode. Most recently Choji has gotten a power up, another instance of what the hell since when? Seriously he's not only in giant mode or what ever it's called he also has the butterfly chakra wings that seem to cover the whole battle field. Then there is Kabuto which is more of an unknown than even Madara.
All of this is true, Power changes over time. I
I guess the best thing to say here is that all in all the Next Generation ALWAYS surpasses the previous one.
We all know Madara wont win, its going to be a long battle though.
But Naruto will end up surpassing Minato, Jiraiya, and the rest of the leaf shinobi.
The will of fire has been passed down to him and from the look of his willpower alone, YOU SEE NOTHING BUT HASHIRAMA SENJU INSIDE NARUTO.
The will of fire is the strongest in Naruto. Just like it was in Hashirama Senju.
Every Leaf shinobi has the will of fire but there are certain shinobi who have it stronger than the others. Such as Hashirama, Hiruzen, Jiraiya, Minato, Kakashi, and Naruto.... it comes down in one person hard each generation.